in_nomine-digest Monday, January 21 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2521 In this digest: Re: IN> Furry In Nomine IN> Re: Furry In Nomine Re: IN> Kyriotate Q. Re: IN> Furry In Nomine Re: IN> Furry In Nomine IN> The weirdest Soldier on Earth... Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) IN> newspapers Re: IN> Furry In Nomine Re: IN> Archangels and Religions... IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity Re: IN> Archangels and Religions... Re: IN> the War Re: IN> the War Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... Re: IN> the War Re: IN> A quick question for you all... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:26:57 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> Furry In Nomine For the most part, looks like an interesting idea... as for a few personal tweaks... Jordi- Call him the Archangel of the >Wild) > snip Dunno. I'm thinking of Archangel of Instinct in this scenario. Course, he could be a rather powerful Superior in this scenario, or could be a strange third party, an Outcast Archangel that entertains beings from both sides in the Wild. >Now, how different would the Celestials be? > >My guess is, the Celestials would look somewhat different: >Seraphim/Balseraphs: Dragons. I can't possibly see the Holiest of Angels >and most Damned of Demons being anything but Dragons, really. Michael, >Baal, Mammon, Lucifer... Even Dominic and Litheroy would make good Dragons. > Frankly, I see the (Bal)Seraphim as being dragons in canon. Maybe make them a bit furry, or feathery. >Cherubim/Djinn: Probably going to follow Jordi's lead and make this >Choir/Band felines of various sorts, like Lions, Tigers and Leopards. > Yes. Though I think bears should be allowed for Djinn. >Ofanim/Calabim: I'm honestly considering birds for this Choir/Band. I can >definetly see Janus as sparrow and Gabriel as a Pheonix. And Valefor would >make an excellent magpie... And how about Haagenti as a Chicken? ^^ > Something just didn't strike me as being right to have a parallel between birds and Calabim... but then I saw Haagenti as a giant, fat chicken. Works for me. >Elohim/Calabim: Kinda hitting a blank here... Should I go with Jordi's >option and make them reptiles? Or should I go with Bovines? Oo > Bovines... Other than Moe's Ronald character (who would be immediately furrized and turned into a cow) I see Jordi's idea as being a good one. Habbalah might even pluck their scales in a design. >Malakim: Wolves, Dogs and other Canines. > Yeah, I can see that. >Lillim: I'm leaning towards favoring Mustelids like skunks and minks, >actually. > I had no idea was a mustelid was before this e-mail. This makes sense actually. I could even see a rather perverse Lilim wearing a fur coat. >Kyriotates/Shedim: Another blank, although I'm leaning towards insectoids >here, preferably in insect swarms. I can definetly see Saminga as a swarm >of flies... > Kyriotates are definitely swarms. Shedim... who's seen Princess Mononoke (spellings probably off)? When a spirit god Falls and becomes a demon, they manifest this swirling, grotesque purple/black covering. I can see Shedim manifesting as that. >Mercurian/Impudites: Here, I'm thinking rodents, like rabbits, beavers and >mice... Although I'm open to suggestions here too... > I am truly stumped on this one. My well of imagination just ran dry. Oh well. Time to take a dive in the subconscious. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:00:02 -0500 From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" Subject: IN> Re: Furry In Nomine First off, I'd like to very humbly and gratefully thank everyone who answered my question once of 'why do people play demons in IN?' The answers were extremely interesting, and very enlightening. Now, on to the current thread. =) >Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 08:44:43 -0500 >From: "Rolland Therrien" >Subject: IN> Furry In Nomine > >I've recently gotten to like a very good furry comic with some theological >themes, called quite simply, Jack. I've read Jack. It is, particularly it's current thread... eminently disturbing. At the same time, there are some incredibly poignant moments in the strip. It's a bit of a hard read: you'll read one story that explores the depths of depravity... then read another that's bittersweet and yet as uplifting as anything. One thing comes to mind when I think of Jack being recast for IN: Shedim. Lots and lots of Shedim. Seriously. I'd rather be dragged kicking and screaming in front of Andrealphus than Drip. Jack is alternately, wonderfully Bright and inutterably Dark. Players' mental gears will clash horribly, I think, if they were thrown into this universe. Cherubim, Mercurians, and Grigori will be devastated emotionally. Gabrielites would have much to draw flaming swords against, and probably explode into gobs of Discord when they couldn't punish all that they could. It could make Novalis turn blackwing. However, I can see some potential source material for IN in it, though. >The comic can be found here: http://jack.keenspace.com/ >But warned, it's for mature audiances only, due to violence, nudity, >profanity and mature subject matter. This is a reasonably accurate caution. =) I would add, 'things that will rip out your mind, rotate it 270-degrees, and shove it back in again. Hard hats recommended.' >Now, how different would the Celestials be? > >My guess is, the Celestials would look somewhat different: >Seraphim/Balseraphs: Dragons. I can't possibly see the Holiest of Angels >and most Damned of Demons being anything but Dragons, really. Michael, >Baal, Mammon, Lucifer... Even Dominic and Litheroy would make good Dragons. This would be visually very cool, I think. =) Both Eastern and Western dragons. >Cherubim/Djinn: Probably going to follow Jordi's lead and make this >Choir/Band felines of various sorts, like Lions, Tigers and Leopards. And Mother Novalis would be a GREAT BIG FUZZY WONDERFUL CALICO! I can say that; my character's an Intercessionist for Novalis. =) Oh, man, I think I feel some dissonance from that one.... >Ofanim/Calabim: I'm honestly considering birds for this Choir/Band. I can >definetly see Janus as sparrow and Gabriel as a Pheonix. And Valefor would >make an excellent magpie... And how about Haagenti as a Chicken? ^^ Just beware the one who is the hummingbird, I've no desire to run into an angel or demon with delusions of being an Aztec god. *shudder* THough that's well in keeping with the tone of Jack. >Elohim/Calabim: Kinda hitting a blank here... Should I go with Jordi's >option and make them reptiles? Or should I go with Bovines? Oo What was the choir of Ophis? >Malakim: Wolves, Dogs and other Canines. Wolves, especially, big black ones, though there are some who call angels of Judgement, 'domini canes.' >Lillim: I'm leaning towards favoring Mustelids like skunks and minks, >actually. Your bias is showing, lad. What, not foxes? ;D >Kyriotates/Shedim: Another blank, although I'm leaning towards insectoids >here, preferably in insect swarms. I can definetly see Saminga as a swarm >of flies... In their celestial form, I can see that. Hives of bumblebees for Kyrios, and plagues of locusts for Shedim. >Mercurian/Impudites: Here, I'm thinking rodents, like rabbits, beavers and >mice... Although I'm open to suggestions here too... Eli as... a platypus. Yes, that fits grandly. =) For Friends and Takers, you'd want a really gregarious species. Rabbits... are certainly gregarious. Most rodents are, actually. Rodentia is probalby a good choice, but so would some species of bird, and equines. - --- ============================================================ Jonathan McDermott http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com - ------------------------------------------------------------ "And now I feel that... feel that I've been there. I didn't need this. Can somebody help me breathe?" - Nickelback, "Breathe" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:02:55 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate Q. They can definitely possess someone over the phone. I just checked it in the APG. They call it "reaching out and touching someone" Brian - -----Original Message----- From: "Ben Glickler" Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:25:42 -0700 To: Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate Q. > > > What's the range? > > > > Line of sight (or through artificial media). > > This is the one that wigged me out. I know many resonances are penalized or > can't be used through artificial media, but could a Kyriotate possess > someone if they have a picture? Or is it just TV? I imagine possessing > someone over the phone is out... > > Thanks, > Ben > > > > - -- _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 01:49:52 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Furry In Nomine Rolland Therrien wrote: > But it got me to thinking... What if In Nomine was set in a furry Universe? > What if instead of Humans, the Corporeal Realm was populated by many > varieties of Anthropomorphic Animals, such as dogs, skunks, ducks, cats or > even elephants? Let's assume Jordi takes care of non-sentiant beasts (and > of instinctive responses in the Anthro ones. Call him the Archangel of the > Wild) Ack. Furry In Nomine! Well, I guess it's one use for In Nomine Anime. (Actually, while I'm a bit cynical about furries, I was once contracted to edit GURPS Furries. That project seems to have evaporated, unfortunately.) Hmm, I'm checking out the comic. I'll read another week's worth and see if it gets better, but right now it looks poorly-drawn, badly-spelled, and incoherent. I guess I never quite got the point of drawing nekkid women as nekkid foxes or nekkid mice or whatever...if you want to draw porn, why cop out with cartoon animals? Oh, right, In Nomine content. Ummm....I think I'd depict celestials as "realistic" animals to contrast them with the cartoony anthropomorphic "mortal" animals. Depends on whether there's any rationale for a "furry universe" or if people are furry critters just because the artist feels like drawing them that way, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 03:55:03 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Furry In Nomine On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 01:49:52 -0600 David Edelstein writes: > (Actually, while I'm a bit cynical about furries, I was once > contracted to edit GURPS Furries. That project seems to have evaporated, > unfortunately.) Hmm...I'm not sure you should be editing anything, with such rampant errors in your e-mails alone. It seems you accidentally hit the "u" and "n" keys before the word "fortunately." >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 05:46:17 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: IN> The weirdest Soldier on Earth... http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/150_jamesjanitor.shtml This has Eli written all over it. Speaking of which, I think I saw Eli at Blockbuster the other day. I didn't want to disturb him; he was with his kid. >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 05:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Demon of Coincidences (was a quick question) - --- "S.D." wrote: > Other than that, though, neat idea. ^^ Perhaps a form of > Irony, instead? > (Poetic Irony, Ironic Endings, etc.) How about "Pyrrhic Victory?" Nah, Baal might want that one... ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 Existential fast food slogan: "Why's the beef?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:46:19 -0600 From: "Cthulhu" Subject: IN> newspapers A little late, I know, but I thought the first line of this article I found in the *Irish Times* just after Christmas might amuse one or two people here... (The Irish Times - Fri 28th Dec, 2001 - by Frank McNally) WAR ON THE STREETS OF DUBLIN AS THE WINTER SALES COMMENCE After the traditional 48-hour Christmas ceasefire, hostilities between God and mammon resumed yesterday with the launch of the winter sales offensive. The first shots were fired as early as 6 a.m. in central Dublin, when the Next clothes chain opened ... Cthulhu _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:40:38 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Furry In Nomine toadpooka@juno.com wrote: > Hmm...I'm not sure you should be editing anything, with such rampant > errors in your e-mails alone. It seems you accidentally hit the "u" and> "n" keys before the word "fortunately." Hey, I needed the money! ;) - -David (editing whore) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:33:32 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> Archangels and Religions... > > Ah, but a truly divine variant of animism wouldn't create > > Ethereals. Hinduism is the exception that proves the rule. > >Argh! "The exception that proves the rule" does NOT refer to a proven >exception to a rule that therefore proves the rule is correct. That >makes no sense, even if it's how most people misuse it nowadays. It >refers to testing a rule with an exception, and if the exception FAILS, >the rule is proven. well, from a purely scientific standpoint, NOTHING can be proven; we can **only** _fail to disprove_ ideas. so, nyah :P As for my own deux centimes, I'd don't see how "Divine" religions couldn't help but create Ethereals. I mean, Jesus isn't in Heaven, there's no (known) Word or named Celestial named Jesus, or Mary for that matter (any of the saints?). Shouldn't any worship of them create Ethereals???? Is it just me or this a huge gaping whole in the game's consistancy. (yes, yes, it's been done before, we had a whole thread devoted to the ethereals known as Jesus, Mary, etc) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:47:57 -0800 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: IN> Demon Princes, Multiplicity I have not read anything from the list in months, so please excuse me if this came up in my 'absence'. (All the mail is still sitting in a box on my server, but I was distracted from reading...) IIRC, the thing where Superiors could have multiple concurrent manifestations did make it into canon. The GMG, I think. If I am wrong that, please correct me. If only Archangels get it (perhaps through the Kyriotate resonance) then a solid word on that would help too. With this in mind: What are the key differences between a Shedite Demon Prince with several manifestations possessing several hosts and Legion's trick of rediscovering Kyriotate multiplicity? Scale, I am guessing, but I wonder if some of the magic isn't lost when you have a Shedite, even a Prince, able to do that. The 'secret' of Shedite multiplicity possibly being rediscovered is looking like a good plot hook for a series of games I'll be running at OrcCon as part of the In Nomine tournament. It is because these are convention games that I am looking for some official guidance rather than just making it up as I go along. Sean ps: GURPS Furries? Really? http://www.brunching.com/features/geekhierarchy.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:37:30 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> Archangels and Religions... On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:33:32 "Perry Lloyd" writes: > As for my own deux centimes, I'd don't see how "Divine" religions couldn't > help but create Ethereals. I mean, Jesus isn't in Heaven, there's no > (known) Word or named Celestial named Jesus, or Mary for that matter (any of > the saints?). Shouldn't any worship of them create Ethereals???? One COULD argue, I suppose - and no doubt someone will swiftly correct me if this violates existing canon - but that they're up in the "Higher Heavens", where Uriel and such are, and apparently your average Celestial doesn't go... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:57:06 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> the War >Of course, the most important struggle in recent time is the War between >Heaven and Hell, hence Michael's focusing the vast majority of his >attention >on this particular job of the moment. But unlike his Fallen adversary >Baal, >Michael has not (at least not, IMO) so narrowly constrained his mind so as >to be able to see nothing else but the War Between Heaven & Hell. Indeed, >this is why Michael's word is 'War', but Baal's is only "The War". Okay ... about Ba'al ... WHY is he powerful again? WHY is THE WAR a powerful word? Flowers encompasses peace, understanding, healing, tulips and love, things coming together in harmony. War encompasses bloodshed, hatred => an offensive, pissed off divinity and taking care of vets (apparently), and things moving against each other in a effort to destroy the other one. But ... the War seems only to emcompass the specific struggle between Good and Evil, between Angels and Demons, Heaven an Hell. Now, this struggle, I've been led to believe, is just a small part of reality (the Symphony) ... Is it somehow important enough (judged important enough by the Symphony, I presume) to be such a powerful Word? (In the original game, Baal's word is "la guerre" and Michel's word is ALSO "la guerre", and while they have the same word they do not "share" the Word because Word-sharing doesn't exist in the European game), they jusut happen to have the same title and use the similar methods (which would be all's fair in war, and FIGHT, KILL, DESTROY!!!!) So, what's up with Baal? (and why is Greed a -minor- word and (Infernal) Fire a major word? Shouldn't Greed bring far many more souls down to Hell than Fire?) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager, modifier et imprimer vos photos pr馩r饳. http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:01:49 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> the War - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Lloyd" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:57 AM Subject: Re: IN> the War > Okay ... about Ba'al ... WHY is he powerful again? WHY is THE WAR a > powerful word? Because up until it's finished, it will touch and affect almost everything going on in the Symphony. The War may be very recent, but it is in no way unimportant. As another example, consider the Media -- that Wrd didn't *exist* two centuries ago, and yet it's one of the most powerful out there precisely because the Media touches so many aspects of human life. The War between Heaven & Hell touches so many aspects of /all Creation/. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 02:18:45 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> OK, a couple of things... >OK, I had a couple of minor choir ideas last night and bashed them out. Any >feedback, comments etc appreciated. Also ideas for improvement - they're a >bit rough and could use some smoothing out. > >http://www27.brinkster.com/marchog/awenau.html >http://www27.brinkster.com/marchog/mathematici.html once they're touched up, can I put these on my webpage? (giving you credit, of course) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos est le moyen le plus simple de partager et imprimer vos photos : http://photos.msn.fr/Support/WorldWide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:14:27 -0500 From: Christopher Pipinou Subject: Re: IN> the War On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:57:06 "Perry Lloyd" writes: > Okay ... about Ba'al ... WHY is he powerful again? WHY is THE WAR a > powerful word? Why is The Sword a powerful word? Why not Weapons in general? Or somehting similar? It's not the Word, it's who's in it, and what they're doing with it. Those Word-holders have been named as the Generals of their respective sides. Hence, they have a lot of Celestial Authority, even if the Word itself isn't amazingly powerful. > (and why is Greed a -minor- word and (Infernal) Fire a major word? > > Shouldn't Greed bring far many more souls down to Hell than Fire?) http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/Resources/mammonhaagenti.html has a marvelous explanation of Greed being a minor word. There's some strife between Greed and Gluttony... then again, Gluttony's getting very big of late... Best, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 02:47:16 From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> A quick question for you all... > > As to that being a list topic, I'm sure that SJG > > appreciates the free demographic info on their customer > > base. }:;:> > >Not unless they actually are collecting the data from this list and >consider people who respond to be representative, both of which would be >false assumptions. > >This is one level above chat-room "M/F?" queries. Please knock it off. >I'm sure it's safe to assume that a lot of gamers are college students. > >-David yeah, besides, we don't care who you are anyway, as people. I'm sure that it's safe to assume that a lot of gamers are former college students, and comic book enthusiasts. speaking of which, has anyone done a DC Heros In Nomine cross-over yet? I'd do it, but don't know the characters or the plot(s) well enough to do it. - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com pl312993@oak.cats.ohiou.edu http://www.geocities.com/perrylloyd/ "And that's the hardest thing for a human being to do - be wrong. Do you know that people would rather die than be wrong?" - --from A Matter For Men by David Gerrold _________________________________________________________________ T鬩chargez MSN Explorer gratuitement ࠬ'adresse http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2521 ********************************