From: Walter Milliken (milliken@BBN.COM)
}2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this list/digest,
}the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm reading the
}description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori fell.
I believe the book says they were excommunicated, rather than Fell. I think all this is said to have happened before the Fall. Granted, the description of what happened to them is similar to what happens to angels who Fall. But the Grigori were exiled to Earth, not Hell, and there's no indication that they joined with Lucifer during the rebellion.
They may be a "third side" in the War.
}The Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of
}the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...."
And legends aren't always right. This seems to be a very weak statement, for canon.
}Also, the description says, "beyond... the malevolent Nephallim, the
}Grigori also engendered half-breed children, seemingly human yet
}part-angel." Has anybody attempted to expand on these Children of the
}Grigori There is a long description of them on p. 106... but I just wonder:
} How many Forces do they have? What Songs (if any) are available to them?
}Do they have any Choir Attunements?
I've been playing with them a bit, and see 6-7 Forces as a good level -- after all, they shouldn't be *significantly* more powerful than humans, or they'd stand out more. The tack I'm taking is that they may have "intrinisic" Songs of any type, but not attunements. I.e., they may use some Song or fixed set of Songs (chosen at character creation) unconsciously, especially in critical situations -- the same sort of time a normal human might expend Essence. Thus, they account neatly for sorcerers, witches, and random miracle-workers, without necessarily being tremendously powerful. Some might gain conscious control of their Essence and their Songs, especially if they were trained by celestials.
---Walter
From: w_mazur@primenet.com (Walt Mazur)
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:45:40 -0400, "Thomas Davidson" (tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us) wrote:
}2) While I liked the description of the Grigori given on this list/digest,
}the Nephallim have left a bad taste in my mouth. If I'm reading the
}description of the Grigori right, then *all* the Grigori fell. The
}Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of
}the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...."
Since they're listed as a choir, they'd have to be Outcasts, not Fallen; though Demons might consider them Renegades.
}Also, the description says, "beyond... the malevolent Nephallim, the
}Grigori also engendered half-breed children, seemingly human yet
}part-angel." Has anybody attempted to expand on these Children of the
}Grigori There is a long description of them on p. 106... but I just wonder:
} How many Forces do they have? What Songs (if any) are available to them?
}Do they have any Choir Attunements?
Just IMHO, I'd say Grigori-proper start with 9 Forces, just like any other Angel. Children have 5-9 Forces, depending on how much Grigori blood they have. Songs would be available. "[T]hey shun demons almost instinctively," and their duty was to watch over humans, so I'd say their Resonance is to detect demons, or perhaps all celestials. Maybe with check digits:
1. Demon or not
2. Whether demon, human, or angel.
3. Additionally, discord level and if outcast or renegade
4. Additionally, Choir or Band
5. Additionally, their Archangel or Prince
6. Additionally, immediate temporary superior
Since their purpose was to help humans, harming humans would be Dissonant.
To give them something as far as Attunements, while they wouldn't have access to Choir or Band Attunements or Distinctions, they've Watched so long, I'd give them access to Servitor attunements, angelic and demonic. That maybe gives them enough power to survive being hunted by both sides. Inherently anomalous, some Grigori would be exceptions to these rules; and any celestial dealing with one will have to worry about Dominic and Asmodeus.
From: Kingsley Lintz (lintking@stout.entertain.com)
}} They may be a "third side" in the War.
} {blink} You mean that there's actually somebody fighting on the *human's*
} side in the War? ;-)
Hehe...seen Men In Black yet? I've been really liking the idea of looking at In Nomine from the human point of view, with a secret organization that exists to keep the Celestials under control as best they can...("Look, son...you've heard of the Great War between Good and Evil, right? Well, it's real. There are Angels and there are Demons, and they spend a lot of time fighting each other..and frankly, neither side usually much cares if we get in the way. Our job is to keep an eye on these people - you'll be learning how to listen for them later - and keep them from doing too much collateral damage to humanity. Don't be fooled into thinking the sides matter...Mercurians are usually okay, but most of the Angels are just as focused on their War as the Demons are.")
From: Walter Milliken (milliken@BBN.COM)
[on the Children of the Grigori]
}} They may be a "third side" in the War.
}{blink} You mean that there's actually somebody fighting on the *human's*
}side in the War? ;-)
The description of the Children certainly gives the impression that they aren't really on either side.
For another take on the "third side" concept, look at:
http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/IOUInNom.html
[OK, it's a shameless plug... though the IN conversion is strictly Elizabeth's work.]
}}} The
}}}Nephallim were children of the Grigori: "Legends say that the children of
}}}the Grigori created were... known... as the Nephallim...."
}} And legends aren't always right. This seems to be a very weak
}} statement, for canon.
}Well, the book further says (toward the bottom right of p. 105) "What few
}angels know, even today, is that beyond their gigantic spawn, the
}malevolent Nephallim...." That seems to imply that the legend got at
}least *that * right.
That some of them are Nephallim, yes. But the initial statement implies that most angels believe that that's *all* of them.
}} after all, they shouldn't be *significantly* more powerful than humans,
}} or they'd stand out more. The tack I'm taking is that they may have
}} "intrinisic" Songs of any type, but not attunements. I.e., they may use
}} some Song or fixed set of Songs (chosen at character creation)
}Apparently there are other people in agreement with you. The general
}consensus seems to be that the Children would not have any Choir
}Attunements, since they aren't truly a choir to begin with.
I am thinking they have some sort of basic resonance, though, which would explain their stated instinctive reaction to demons. This leaves open the possibility of having a "choir" attunement, but since angels are supposed to stay away from the Children, it seems unlikely that any Archangel would devise or grant such attunments.
Children may have the same resonance as the Watchers -- one which is not given in the book. I would assume it's something to do with observing or teaching. The former would fit better with the instinctive dislike of demons.
---Walter
From: Adam Canning (Dahak@compuserve.com)
From: Kingsley Lintz
} Hehe...seen Men In Black yet? I've been really liking the idea of looking at In Nomine from the human point of view, with a secret organization that exists to keep the Celestials under control as best they can...("Look, son...you've heard of the Great War between Good and Evil, right? Well, it's real. There are Angels and there are Demons, and they spend a lot of time fighting each other..and frankly, neither side usually much cares if we get in the way. Our job is to keep an eye on these people - you'll be learning how to listen for them later - and keep them from doing too much collateral damage to humanity. Don't be fooled into thinking the sides matter...Mercurians are usually okay, but most of the Angels are just as focused on their War as the Demons are.") {
The MiB's are Malakim in Black attempting to protect us from Vapula' s Flying Saucers.
The Priory of Zion, the Dragon and Phoenix Society, Thule Brotherhood or the Society of Assassins on the other hand..
Adam
Dahak@Compuserve.Com
Except of course that the Priory of Zion works for Yves, The Dragon and Pheonix society for Valefor, The Thule Brotherhood are sorcerors and the Assassins work for Gabriel. The Knights Templar work for either Baal or Lawrence but its hard to tell and the Roscrucians work for Novalis. Possibly the Illuminati arn't working for a Superior but possibly they work for Lucifer [after all they are all about seeing the light...]
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