in_nomine-digest Wednesday, November 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2873 In this digest: RE: IN> Trade Rite Question Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Trade Rite Question Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Trade Rite Question IN> Trade Rite Question IN> Lilim and Needs IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> Lilim and Needs Re: IN> Trade Rite Question Re: IN> Planting the Hook Re: IN> GURPS: IN Sorcery Question IN> TANSTAAFL IN> Need, Hooks, and KK Re: IN> Lilim and Needs Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK Re: IN> GURPS: IN Sorcery Question Re: IN> Lilim and Needs Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit Re: IN> IN Detroit IN> Home for old Roles - The Suppliers Re: IN> IN Detroit ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:01:59 -0700 From: Julian Mensch Subject: RE: IN> Trade Rite Question Truthfully, that rite never seemed very angelic to me; I suspect it comes from the same mentality that gave us terrorist Khalid, heresy-freak Dominic and incompetant Laurence. (Not that any of those things are bad for a wiseass game about marginally symphathetic angels (i.e., INS/MV), but IN has grown beyond that.) I prefer to replace that rite with "initiate a signi- ficant transaction where both parties make at least a 50% gain on their investment, or the metaphorical equivalent thereof." - -- Julian Mensch ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:21:46 +0100 From: shadur@systemec.nl (Rens Houben) Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit In other news for Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 08:13:39PM -0700, Steven E. Ehrbar has been seen typing: > >Hell Night, I've made kind of a seasonal tether to > >Belial. Every October 30, wherever the burnings and > >riots start, the tether opens. Once I run the > >Revelations Cycle, it'll fork into Furfur's section of > >Shal-Mari. That oughtta tick Belial right off. > Hmm. The 30th was generally called Devil's Night, not Hell Night, when > I was living in the Detroit area (that is, from 1981 to earlier this > year), and the arson ran three or four days, starting on the 27th or > 28th and running through the night of the 31st.. (The carnage has been > reduced in recent years by massive community volunteer efforts, and the > city administration and local news has rechristened the 30th as "Angels' > Night" -- this seasonal Tether is probably weakening seriously, and > would require significant effort to be saved.) Or slightly less effort to help along that final push... Maybe even Word-Shift it to Stone (Adventure/plot seed, anyone?) And wouldn't THAT tick off ol' Smokey? *goes back to shining up his New Crusade secret decoder ring* > -- > Steven E. Ehrbar ehrbar@softhome.net stevenehrbar@elp.rr.com > We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in > tolerance and free speech. - David Brin - -Shad, Cherub of Lightning IST Orc, Angel of Underpaid Sysadmins With Too Much Time On Their Hands - -- Rens Houben | opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP public key at http://suzaku.systemec.nl/shadur.key.asc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:38:32 -0500 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question At 12:51 AM 11/26/2002 -0500, C. Mark Pearson wrote: >Yes, it is so. You may be right. I'm inclined to disagree, given that I've never before in my entire life heard the term "percent profit" defined the way you're defining it. However, the point is effectively moot. You obviously know what the Rite *means* to say; either use it that way or come up with something that better suits your campaign. Prolonging the debate isn't becoming to any party involved. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 05:39:05 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit - --- "Steven E. Ehrbar" wrote: > Jerry B. wrote: > The Reinassance Center is a good case for Dark Humor, > given that it was > built just before Detroit's lowest ebb, got remodeled > four times in 20 > years because the internal space was put together so > stupidly (floors > you could only get to by going above then and then back > down, for > example), and was built by Henry Ford II for ten times > what GM paid for > it when they decided to make it their world HQ. Heh. I made the Alamodome a Tether to Dark Humor for similar reasons. They built it on a site where the dirt was radioactive, spent millions cleaning up the area and finished late and over budget. Then the Spurs win one world championship in the building (during a short season) and insist that such an illustrious team needs a better venue to play in. So they abandon the dome for the SBC Center. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 05:46:58 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question - --- "C. Mark Pearson" wrote: > See, when he hands over his Widget and gets a Benji > Franklin in return, he > has to subtract his costs (a G. Washington), which leaves > him with $99.00 > (US). 99 is what percentage of 100? 99% obviously. The > only way he could > make 100% profit is if he had no costs. Uh uh. The only way to make 100% profit is to make your costs back, and then make at least as much on top of it. In the example above, the widget maker makes 100% profit on his initial investment if he sells the widgets for $2.00 each ($1.00 covers his cost, the other $1.00 is all profit). Profit is what you make after you recoup expenses - -- net as opposed to gross. This is why major Hollywood blockbusters can make so much money and not go into profit; the cost that we hear for making a movie is usually limited to production cost. It doesn't include things like advertising, development costs for ancillary marketing or points (a star's percentage of the gross). Not until all of that stuff is paid for does the film go into profit. Bottom line (pun intended) is that it is possible for Traders to fulfill the Rite as worded in the rulebook. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:48:15 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Trade Rite Question > You make 100% profit if you can sell something > for twice as much as it cost you to obtain it. Is this net or gross? If it's net, that could explain why Hollywood is under demon control. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:48:14 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Lilim and Needs > It seems counter-intuitive to > me that a Lilim should be able to collect a geas-hook by doing nothing, > especially when the Need was generated by a situation that the Lilim > herself created. This is Canon. "Lilim of Cruelty [Magog] add their Corporeal Forces to their resonance roll if they are inflicting pain on someone as they attempt to perceive their Need. (Not surprisingly, the Need they perceive is often for the Lilim to stop hurting her victim!)" (Rev.5 p59) The problem I have with KK is that since she's trying to get killed she shouldn't get a hook. A Malakite does not Need help killing a demon who's trying to get killed. It seems to be very "pass the salt." Hmm... But I've Got It Right Here! (Celestial Discord) This Discord only afflicts Lilim. This Discord causes a penalty to the Lilim's perception roll when she tries to inflict a Geas. If the roll would have succeeded, but failed because of the Discord, the Lilim gets a false reading. If the Lilim satisfies this False Need she gets a False Hook, which only Lilith herself can tell from a genuine Hook. Needless to say that trying to use this False Hook to inflict a Geas will not work. Using a False Hook by itself to inflict a Geas will not cause Dissonance. Trying to use it in conjunction with a genuine Hook will not reveal it as a False Hook. The combination will seem to work, but it will only be as strong as the genuine Hook(s). This may cause the Lilim to demand too great a Geas from her victim, and thereby suffer Dissonance. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:48:15 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> IN Detroit > My current game is set in Detroit Isn't there a nuclear reactor nearby, just upwind? I recall song from the No Nukes movie, "We Almost Lost Detroit," about a meltdown or some kind of accident. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:17:37 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Needs - --- BC Petery wrote: > But I've Got It Right Here! (Celestial Discord) Heheheh... The question now is this -- are there also Geas Lines and Geas Sinkers? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:21:35 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Trade Rite Question - --- BC Petery wrote: > Is this net or gross? Gross is what you make before subtracting expenses. What's left after recouping expenses is net. > If it's net, that could explain why Hollywood is under > demon control. Uh huh. People who are in debt are easier to influence. Lilim alone can do a lot of damage; Need/3+ (Make a profit on my next picture) shows up pretty frequently. Then there are the has-been actors who'll do all manner of turkeys because they need the money. And you can't underestimate the importance of blackmail in getting one of Hell's projects greenlighted ("Do this for me and I won't tell anyone that you skimmed from the production budget."). =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:38:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Planting the Hook At 11:12 PM +0000 11/23/02, Jarrod Carmichael wrote: >The scariest thing about hooks is that a lilim can shine your shoes 6 times. >And then get you to work for her for a year. Ive always thought combining >geas was a little daft. A lot of people have a higher ratio to "trade up" -- GURPS IN, for example, has a 4 to 1 ratio: 4 hooks of the lower level equals 1 hook of a higher level. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:43:00 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> GURPS: IN Sorcery Question At 7:47 PM -0500 11/23/02, William J. Keith wrote: >G:IN has "Cost to Cast:20" for Summon Demon, half that if the demon is on >Earth. This is wildly out of line with "Summon Random Demon" in the CPG, >which has a cost of "Essence equal to the demon's Forces." Is this >intended? It's the quick and dirty conversion. Feel free to adjust. O:> (It may be a relic of when Fatigue equaled Essence, in one of the earlier forms of GIN. It may be to keep it looking in line with GURPS Magic. It may be a good excuse for the sorcerer to sacrifice a lot of cats and cows and stuff.) I actually have a bunch of GURPS-converted rituals that I need to ask if Steven Marsh if he thinks should be in Pyramid or if I should just put it on the INC... - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 15:07:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> TANSTAAFL At 1:02 PM -0500 11/25/02, TWISTEDKUB@aol.com wrote: >But I'm still confused about something: why do some of the IN rulebooks imply >that Lilim can easily get "entangled" in a web of Geases? Because for a Lilim, and Free Lilim in particular, NOTHING is free. Do you want to nip down a Tether to somewhere? Promise the Seneschal a favor -- something small, just an hour later... Got two people calling in favors on you? Promise a sister something later, if she'll help you out. Broke your leg and need to get something delivered? Hey, there's a sister in the area; it's only a day-Geas you have to pay. Want that cool attunement from Theft? Flirt a little, bat your eyes, fork over a few months... Want a Body by Lust? No problem -- it's just six months and a roll in the sheets with the Prince... Nothing is free. >I suppose some of a Lilim's entanglement may come from the fact that Lilith >begins each Lilim's existence by having the poor thing "owe favors" to the >Prince she serves. But this can only cause limited entanglement. No -- Lilim owe Lilith 9 favors _or_ they can bind to a Prince and serve him as a Servitor. >And why on earth would a Lilim ever want to Geas *herself*? This is hinted at >in the rulebooks but it is beyond me. It's the only way they manage -- trading favors. If they're lucky, they get known for keeping their word, and can deal in unofficial promises. (Those don't cause dissonance if you break them -- but break them too much and people will insist on cold hard Geases next time.) PC Lilim tend to be more twitchy about promising favors, mind. PCs hate being constrained, near as I can tell. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:51:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK At 10:50 AM -0500 11/24/02, S.D. wrote: > Need: give Di a shot at Redeeming appeared. (lv/4). > >Naturally, Di didn't *want* to Redeem, but once he caught me alone he *did* >hook him for letting him try to talk Di into it, and giving him contact numbers >if he changed his mind. But Di didn't get the full hook/4, because of how >indirect it was - instead, the GM halved it. Frankly, I wouldn't have let that hook work at all. Di didn't redeem, so the Need wasn't fulfilled. No hook. (Of course, there's always networking later; not all hooks have to be Geas hooks...) >KK's only munchkin in that she has a *whole* lotta Geases on *Malakim*. As near as I can figure, K.K. is a one-trick pony, whose trick is VERY annoying, and who only works because the GM fiats that Kobal gives her a lot of vessels... If she were a PC, the GM would only have to take away the Princely Favor and poof, her trick isn't so keen anymore. So she's only a GM munchkin K.K. as PC K.K. as GM antagonist * Buys vessels a LOT * Gets free vessels from Prince * Pays for all the hooks * Is assumed to have hooked many (IPG, Lilim section) NPCs, for free * Has to worry about back- * Definitely has deathtraps to keep stabbing when she's in Trauma her safe, near her Heart She's quite controllable as a PC. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:06:06 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Needs At 10:48 AM -0500 11/26/02, BC Petery wrote: >The problem I have with KK is that since she's trying to get killed she >shouldn't get a hook. A Malakite does not Need help killing a demon who's >trying to get killed. It seems to be very "pass the salt." Right -- but until she sees the Need, she has Dodge/6 and Celestial Motion. She only holds still and lets herself be struck down _after_ the poor angel wants her dead. (See the other assessment about why K.K. is, yes, a munchkin -- but only as an NPC.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:39:43 -0500 From: "S.D." Subject: Re: IN> Need, Hooks, and KK >> Need: give Di a shot at Redeeming appeared. (lv/4). >> >>Naturally, Di didn't *want* to Redeem, but once he caught me alone he *did* >>hook him for letting him try to talk Di into it, and giving him contact numbers >>if he changed his mind. But Di didn't get the full hook/4, because of how >>indirect it was - instead, the GM halved it. > >Frankly, I wouldn't have let that hook work at all. Di didn't redeem, so the >Need wasn't fulfilled. No hook. (Of course, there's always networking later; >not all hooks have to be Geas hooks...) The wording of the Need was "give him a chance to Redeem", not "get him Redeemed" - basically, it *was* partly fulfilled by talking to him and telling him about it, and giving him a 'way out'. It was just pretty indirect, especially since Di didn't actually *agree* to take the 'way out' (yet), so *definitely* no full hook. ...that and the GM and I *both* agreed that the only way Di would survive Kobal finding out would have to be if he had a good reason for staying to talk with the Malakite (beyond "I didn't want him to kill me!"), and actually *having* a hook on him took care of that. ^^; >>KK's only munchkin in that she has a *whole* lotta Geases on *Malakim*. > >As near as I can figure, K.K. is a one-trick pony, whose trick is VERY >annoying, and who only works because the GM fiats that Kobal gives her >a lot of vessels... If she were a PC, the GM would only have to take away >the Princely Favor and poof, her trick isn't so keen anymore. So she's only >a GM munchkin > > K.K. as PC K.K. as GM antagonist >* Buys vessels a LOT * Gets free vessels from Prince >* Pays for all the hooks * Is assumed to have hooked many > (IPG, Lilim section) NPCs, for free >* Has to worry about back- * Definitely has deathtraps to keep > stabbing when she's in Trauma her safe, near her Heart > >She's quite controllable as a PC. Right. As a PC, she's fine. As a NPC, she's munchkin, but just because of the actual *nature* of her main trick. If it was...oh, say, getting a lot of hooks on Ofanim/Windies by helping them escape jail or something like that, she wouldn't have the Vessels or the deathtraps, and while she *would* have a decent amount of Geases they wouldn't be on the Choir which seems to be one of the hardest to hook but the most useful if you can. Plus she'd be helping Freedom, technically, which is always good for a Lilim. ^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:30:22 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> GURPS: IN Sorcery Question >I actually have a bunch of GURPS-converted rituals that I need to ask >if Steven Marsh if he thinks should be in Pyramid or if I should just >put it on the INC... >--Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor I would *love* this resource in a form as close to canon as possible -- i.e., Pyramid, if I understand its status correctly. I have (some number of)* Sorcerer(s) as NPCs, and am currently using the suggested spells from G:Magic and G:Grimoire listed in G:IN. A professional version of converted original rituals would allow me to use the Sorcery sections of the CPG more thoroughly, and give my Sorcerer(s) more options. William * Sorry for the phrasing. I have players on the list, and they don't know who all's what yet. :^) (Game picked back up last weekend, whoo!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:39:37 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Needs > >The problem I have with KK is that since she's trying to get killed she > >shouldn't get a hook. A Malakite does not Need help killing a demon who's > >trying to get killed. It seems to be very "pass the salt." > >Right -- but until she sees the Need, she has Dodge/6 and Celestial >Motion. She only holds still and lets herself be struck down _after_ >the poor angel wants her dead. My one point is, how many malakim really want to stop at vessel killing. I know my players malakim get off on Soul Killing things if they can. What does she do when she senses that need? As far as im concerned, if a malakims needs is to kill you. Its soul death, your vessel is just a shell. Also. How does a character come to this course of action? Its kinda trivialiing trauma for one. And it just doesn't sit right. I cant explain why, but its the same feeling I get when running a LARP game and players go. "were gonna by a deep mining tunneler and........ with lasers........ and guards with sawn off shotguns and laser sight........ with a melon". You know the drill people. I say. If she does it again, have the malakim or ally possess her body and have her go celstial, then whup her. Song of thunder? Ofanim of war? There is no sure fire escape mechanism. Or simply have someone use song of attraction (tracking one)and murder her in her sleep. Just some thoughts Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:43:34 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit >From: "Steven E. Ehrbar" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:13:39 -0700 > I used Detroit as a setting for my Vampires games. When I was in the US (summer 99) I took a pilgramage to detroit. Stayed in a scummy hotel in Park ave, right in the middle of town. $12 a night, cant go wrong. I spent 3 weeks just hanging out, walking around and meeting people. Btw, when i got into NFL and NHL about 97 when we got satelite i started supporting both detroit teams. Ha, I still watch lions games even though it makes me cry some times. >The Reinassance Center is a good case for Dark Humor, I love the RenCen, its so excessive. How about something to do with the lions last year. They were the butt of many a bad joke. >If you want a Lightning/Technology tether, What about the place Ford invented his cars, wheres that? Is it in dearborn? >Hmm. The 30th was generally called Devil's Night You can thank the crow for making people outside the US know about devils night, thanks media! Also why I picked it for vampire, cheesy as that is. >The People Mover (a monorail) makes another decent Dark Humor tether I thought this was the dumbest thing in the whole city. I mean, honestly. It did help me get from the RenCen to the other end of downtown by park ave, but the cities never too crowded. >be a tether formerly to Trade (thanks to the historic actions of the >union there,) which has since fallen to Greed. Or a fallen tether to stone might be better, unions seems more stone to me. And daves hostile to marc. And Unions can be hostile to making money. A suggestion for either a tether, or jsut a place of import. John K. Kings, used and rare books. 901 w.lafeyette. This place rocked, the coolest 2nd hand book shop. Could be the residence of a servitor of destiny. Also, there are a lot of bums that hang out in the big park down by RenCen and Joe Louis arena. That could be a place for a meninum, or as in my brief detroit game a servitor of destiny. Alright. my 2c. Mallakai JC "Barry sanders hes our man, if he cant do it..... the lions will never see the super bowl" _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:55:03 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit - --- Jarrod Carmichael wrote: > What about the place Ford invented his cars, wheres that? > Is it in dearborn? I believe so, though it's been almost 15 years since I was there. The museum's quite impressive -- it could well be a Tether to Lightning. > Unions can be hostile to making money. !!! Do you know what kind of wages union guys make? =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:29:40 -0800 From: " Cameron McCurry" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit >>!!! Do you know what kind of wages union guys make? But when you demand that unions are to be the only source of work, you force companies to take facilities to countries where prices are more reasonable. This affects the ability of people to make money. ObIN: Which makes me think that Unions were corrupted by a joint effort of Malphas and Mammon. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:01:38 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit On a very much related topic, does anyone know where one could find good quality maps(of Detroit, specifically) online? I'm not running my In Nomine campaign there(that's in Montreal, so if you have any lines on good Montreal maps, point me towards them, too =)), but I am running a Sabbat Vampire campaign there. Mapquest is alright, but I don't for the most part want roads and county divisions - I want to know neighbourhoods, where populations are. I want maps that tell me what type and densities of buildings, what type of zoning, are there so that I know whether that road runs through a white bread family homes area, or through an industrial park. =) Alright, so maybe that's asking for too much...but there has to be something better than just mapquest.com, right? I got a cheap guidebook for my Montreal In Nomine game, and that thing has sure been marked up...haven't been able to find anything good for Detroit yet, and I prefer digital anyways. So, maps are cool. =) Just FYI...anyone considering running an In Nomine campaign near Montreal absolutely *must* watch Jesus of Montreal. =) That movie is what made me go "Yup, the campaign is going to be in Montreal..." St. Joseph's Oratory is a Tether of Stone in my game. =) A. Wade Lahoda ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:05:29 -0600 From: "Wade Lahoda" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit - ----- Original Message ----- From: " Cameron McCurry" > But when you demand that unions are to be the only source of work, you force > companies to take facilities to countries where prices are more reasonable. > This affects the ability of people to make money. This topic scares me. I can see Malphas planting the seeds of chaos on this list... Most of us geeky gamers might not care, but I know how worked up some people can get when discussing unions. Dangerous turf. Tread carefully lest the flames be released. =) Unions: The ultimate tag team combo... It's Marc and his unlikely ally David in one corner, Malphas and Hageentii in the other... =) Or is it Marc and Malphas versus David and Hagentii? =) A. Wade Lahoda Solidarity Forever? ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 16:35:36 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Home for old Roles - The Suppliers Djinn of The Game - their Roles may vary, but they always seem to end up doing the same thing. If they're soldiers, they end up as quartermaster; as police officers, they handle seized goods; as accountants they cover the tracks of other Djinn. By the time their Roles need to be retired, they're ready for their new job - handling the massive business of smuggling weapons. In the last few years before their retirement, they attune themselves to the goods they 'lose' from stores; this allows them to trace the end users of the goods and to provide anonymous tip offs to mundane police: once the middle men have been eliminated, the Djinn steps in as a replacement, while one of his Servants takes over as quartermaster. The fluid nature of arms dealing means that their Role can 'lose' a decade or more in age without anyone realising, and Djinn who were quartermasters during the Napoleonic Wars still have their Roles intact as smugglers. Having control of the more dangerous weapons mortals possess pleases Asmodeus no end, of course; an unwritten rule (and in The Game, the unwritten rules are the ones you never dare break) is that no Djinn can claim to be a Supplier, no matter what his Role or rank, unless he's attuned to a missing nuke. Asmodeus knows the locations of every nuclear device on the Corporeal Plane (at least, so he believes) and even if someone manages to set one off, he'll know which one it was, and be able to guess who was responsible. Rumours that Asmodeus plans to use some of these nukes to vaporise an ethereal domain or three continually circulate, of course. The War relies heavily on The Suppliers; getting everything they need through The Game makes it so much harder for lunatic Warriors to get their hands on tanks, aircraft, warships or nukes. Of course, these are needed occasionally, and The Suppliers provide them - if the operation has been approved by on eof Baal's Generals. Other demons can buy weapons through The Suppliers - in fact The Game encourages this. Belialites normally buy a flamethrower or three off The Suppliers every few months to discourage The Game from arresting them; Samingans also use this strategy, buying a wider selection of weapons. Of course, purchasing your weapons from The Game does make it easier for them to keep tabs on you... Finally, if the War hots up too much, the Suppliers are often ordered to deliver materials 'cut price': basically, if someone starts overusing firepower in a region Hell wants quiet, their enemies will given tanks, artillery, and anything else which might be useful and asked to 'deal with the problem': having a company of T-72s roll into a Tether and 'suggest' that a specific demon be handed over to The Game (or angel be 'reassigned' to Heaven) routinely prevents the War from being noticed by mortals. Heaven could fight these groups, of course, but discouraging Hell from keeping the War quiet isn't considered wise. Besides, The Suppliers have been known to equip angels, if Asmodeus believed that this would benefit Hell. ======== Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:08:36 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> IN Detroit > On a very much related topic, does anyone know where one could find >good >quality maps(of Detroit, specifically) online? I know your pain. I tried looking a few years back. I had to damm well wait until I got into the city to buy a good map. JC _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2873 ********************************