in_nomine-digest Saturday, November 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2870 In this digest: IN> Technical Difficulties (was Re: ...unarmed combat) Re: IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death IN> More Janus stuff. Re: IN> Snuff Films (RE: Releiver Nicknames) RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect IN> The Third Fall. IN> Planting the Hook IN> Resonance Abuse IN> Rude Cherubim Re: IN> The Third Fall. Re: IN> Planting the Hook Re: IN> Rude Cherubim IN> Two New Attunements (was: Rude Cherubim) Re: IN> Two New Attunements (was: Rude Cherubim) Re: IN> Resonance Abuse Re: IN> Rude Cherubim IN> Home for old Roles - Part I: Scipio's. Re: IN> Planting the Hook ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 06:29:36 -0500 From: EDG Subject: IN> Technical Difficulties (was Re: ...unarmed combat) At 12:40 AM 11/22/2002 -0500, Josh Moger wrote: >Actually, this was all a weak attempt to justify sending a post to the list >to see if there's a technical reason why its so silent today or if the >recent rash of fiction and posting just tired the list out. The ObIN was appreciated. Nonetheless, if you are worried about whether the list is still active, sending messages, something you're subscribed to, etc., please, *please* ask Majordomo about it instead of asking the list. To: majordomo@lists.io.com Subject: Body: which That's really all you have to do. This will return a list of the active lists to which you are subscribed. If you don't receive a reply from majordomo in a few minutes, then either your mail server is *really* slow at processing mail (majordomo usually replies within *seconds*), your From: address isn't the address at which you receive mail (in which case change the body to "which
", where
is the email address which you want to query), or something's wrong at io.com (or at a hub between you and io.com, which really amounts to the same practical result: you ain't gettin' INML mail). If you receive the reply and the IN list of your choice isn't listed, then resubscribe. If you receive the reply and the IN list of your choice *is* listed, then the list just isn't getting a lot of posts. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:35:17 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of The Hand of Death > >From: BC Petery wrote: >> While in the upper locus of an Infernal Tether, Leikbir >> may spend 7 essence to draw a human into Hell > > Is this just for mortals or can it work on the Redeemed? Nasty if it does. It wouldn't have much effect on a celestial, even if he could do so. They'd just use the Tether to return to the Corporeal*. But I can't see his effect working on Celestials. His Word and special ability are built on the human fear of being dragged to hell; even the most panicked mortal will assume that if an angel ends up in hell then that's *hell's* problem, so I can't see his Word being fed by the idea. *Of course, some Tethers are only one-way; but then, there are rumours of Tethers which can suck celestials through them anyway(LCast p20) so the possibility already exists. Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:21:48 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: IN> More Janus stuff. Well. The list has been quiet, and im still typing up my Janus info for my game. (Ive moved house so the last 2 weeks have been a bit of a right off.) So produce me some good stuff people. Im still looking for ideas for a Janus writeup for my players. So any fiction, sample characters, janus anecdotes, ideas for tethers, ideas for roles etc. Send it all! Except music and casting calls, we will have none of that ;) Anything and everything is accepted. If I have my way and can give then a 10-20 pages booklet thing using naught but cut and paste! Cheers for your input Mallakai "What god wants, god gets, god help us all" PS. Im glad I proof read this letter. I left more than one J off Janus. And to think I wrote a 30,000 page thesis, you would think that would make me literate. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:58:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Finder Subject: Re: IN> Snuff Films (RE: Releiver Nicknames) On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 1:01 PM -0400 11/21/02, Randy Finder wrote: > >On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> This is why demons of Lust hate hate hate HATE it when their Prince > >> gives them a kiddy vessel, or any other sort of vessel, and send them > >> to one of THOSE studios. (Andre doesn't mind people _watching._) It's > >> also why demons at THOSE studios like knowing Corporeal Entropy, so they > >> can youthen captured angels, etherals, or Samingans... > > >So if you make the movies without killing the humans all the better... > > Exactly. Mind, if they're already undead, you can probably convince > the Prince that it was okay. So mummies, vampires, and zombis are all > fair game for Lusties trying to do snuff films, too, probably. > > >I'm sure Christopher *still* isn't a fan of it, simply because people who > >see themovies may take the final step themselves... > > Oh, definitely. > So if a servitor of Christopher finds a group of Lusties using a Vampire to make a snuff film, he should let them finish making the snuff film, but make sure the film is ruined. :) Randy - -- Leadership, Friendship and Service - Alpha Phi Omega ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:24:48 -0600 From: Matthew Cutter Subject: RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > From: "Joey's mail" > > I agree; A Cherub of Wind in my campaign attuned himself to a demon, causing > him to become his servant, and he ordered the demon to give > him all the essence he could hold and as he put it "bleed the rest out." > So yes, you CAN waste essence, i suppose. Now *that's* a dirty, rotten trick. I love it! Very useful for shaking up the demonic status quo. - -Matt C. Matthew C. Cutter Support Analyst Epicor Technical Support mcutter@epicor.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:53:38 -0800 From: Kish Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Matthew Cutter wrote: > > > From: "Joey's mail" > > > > I agree; A Cherub of Wind in my campaign attuned himself to a demon, > causing > > him to become his servant, and he ordered the demon to give > > him all the essence he could hold and as he put it "bleed the rest out." > > So yes, you CAN waste essence, i suppose. > > Now *that's* a dirty, rotten trick. I love it! Very useful for shaking up > the demonic status quo. : mutters: Dedicatedtobestinterestsofattunedblatantresonanceabusecheating:...oh, never mind me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:00:33 -0800 From: "Joey's mail" Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect > > From: "Joey's mail" > > > > I agree; A Cherub of Wind in my campaign attuned himself to a demon, > causing > > him to become his servant, and he ordered the demon to give > > him all the essence he could hold and as he put it "bleed the rest out." > > So yes, you CAN waste essence, i suppose. > > Now *that's* a dirty, rotten trick. I love it! Very useful for shaking up > the demonic status quo. > Not to mention that it more or less completely sent the course of the adventure flying off into oblivion... (P.S.--I hope this isn't considered overquoting...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:18:15 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect At 10:53 AM -0800 11/22/02, Kish wrote: >Matthew Cutter wrote: >> > I agree; A Cherub of Wind in my campaign attuned himself to a demon, [...] >: mutters: >Dedicatedtobestinterestsofattunedblatantresonanceabusecheating:...oh, >never mind me. (Actually, it's against canon, IIRC. I think that the APG and IPG clarify that celestials don't get turned into Servants this way. Only humans. But don't worry 'bout it.) (No, I don't know what would happen if a Cherub of the Wind attuned itself to a demon of the Game using Humanity. Hopefully, the GM would smile evilly.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:05:57 -0800 From: Daiv Subject: Re: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect At 6:24 PM -0500 11/20/02, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >You know, I don't think there's an answer in canon. So I'm going to say, >"GMs decide." And if your GM decides no, then spend it on an Emote skill >roll to simulate Song use... > >(Me, I figure if people wanna waste Essence...) And so, canon has been pronounced. But the other night, I absolutely could not get to sleep until i wrote this idea down enough to remember it. If you do spend essence to not particular purpose, then maybe there would be a series of random supernatural events? Just a thought. -Daiv - -- wireless network 802.11 transparent bamboo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:20:14 -0500 From: "Wajenberg, Earl" Subject: RE: IN> Essence expenditure with no actual effect Daiv wrote: > If you do spend essence to not particular purpose, then maybe > there would be a series of random supernatural events? The source of poltergeist activity, perhaps? I am also reminded of the Ramtop mountains on Discworld, where the level of the background magic field is so high that random portents are just part of the weather. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:44:12 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> The Third Fall. > Who do you think was the Third Fall... The fall from grace of Adam & Eve. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:44:10 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Planting the Hook There is something I've been thinking about for a while: Does a Lilim need a formal agreement to plant a Hook? There have been several instances where it has been implied that just fulfilling a Need plants a Hook, with no contact necessary other than the look in the eyes between Lilim and target. This seems extremely unbalancing and allows munchkins like KK, Lilim of Dark Humor, and Nadine, Lilim of Fate, to exist. In the games I've played, I needed to the target to understand that I expected to be repayed and get them to agree to repay the favor later. It could be something as simple as the target accepting a Needed object while I said, "Here, you can pay me back later." If they said "No" but kept the object, the act of keeping the object sealed the agreement. It is also possible to overcharge the target by getting them to agree to a prearranged price. (I will do you this favor. But some day, and that day may never come, I will ask you to repay this favor. And you will agree, _now_, to 3 Geas/6. Yes, I do value my life more than yours. Do you accept?) This was balanced by the problem of getting someone to agree. If they knew you were a Lilim and you made them an offer, they should probably say no and refuse any temptation. A Lilim who fulfills a target's Need but doesn't at least _imply_ payback has just wasted her time, effort and the Perception roll to detect the Need. (Unless you count the gratitude factor. Some angels and many mortals are good for that.) To summarize: No Agreement = No Hook Informal Agreement = Need CD Formal Agreement = Whatever the Lilim can squeeze out of the target ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:44:12 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Resonance Abuse >> Make him roll each and every one. [...] > > If you try to give him 30 different resonance >readings...you'll spend the entire game making the stuff up.[...] Heheheh. No. Make them all identical. Watch his brain skip a gear. OK, that's silly. You might just make up a list of thirty or so honorable things and another list of dishonorable things, then repeat things off the lists. While there is a strong impulse to be creative with your NPCs you have to remember that they are NPCs. It's the PCs who should be the odd balls. (Besides, most of the people I know are pretty boring anyway. House, spouse & 2.3) Just remember to keep the list nice and generic. "Told the authorities about the boss' scheme," could mean the FTC or Asmodeus. Hey, if he's going to be boring, just roll dice and not plan, he should get a face full of boring lack of planning. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Roll the dice! Let God sort them out!" "Don't try to pass the buck, God appointed _you_ to sort them out." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:44:12 -0500 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Rude Cherubim > From: "William J. Keith" > First, no attack would be planned unless the Tether started > having serious effect -- that is, until it had committed itself to > rebellion against God. It wouldn't be a Tether if it wasn't committed to rebellion against God. > they aren't getting the bazooka out of its case to play baseball > with it There is an old saying, "Don't make threats. Someone might take you seriously." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:54:44 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: Re: IN> The Third Fall. >> Who do you think was the Third Fall... > >The fall from grace of Adam & Eve. > That'd be a pretty long Fall... and would actually fit more as the first. Adam and Eve eat the apple, hence 'fall'. Lucifer Rebels and Falls. And the Grigori are Outcast. Josh ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:06:12 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Planting the Hook At 4:44 PM -0500 11/22/02, BC Petery wrote: >There is something I've been thinking about for a while: Does a Lilim need a >formal agreement to plant a Hook? This depends a lot on GMs. The basic consensus is that the target needs to _accept_ the favor. (How can this not be done, if the favor is "clean up my room" and the Lilim sneaks in and cleans it? Maybe messing it up again quickly will work.) Basically, the linkage is when the target accepts the favor, in his or her own heart. (No, you can't take the money and "not accept the favor" -- duh. You have to reject the favor.) > There have been several instances where it >has been implied that just fulfilling a Need plants a Hook, with no contact >necessary other than the look in the eyes between Lilim and target. It's pretty close, yes. > This >seems extremely unbalancing and allows munchkins like KK, Lilim of Dark >Humor, and Nadine, Lilim of Fate, to exist. Well, KK is a GM-only Munchkin, but yeah. Basically, to refuse the hook -- you have to refuse to kill KK when she offers you the chance. >In the games I've played, I needed to the target to understand that I >expected to be repayed and get them to agree to repay the favor later. That's one option GMs use, yes. >It is also possible to overcharge the target by getting them to agree to a >prearranged price. (I will do you this favor. But some day, and that day may >never come, I will ask you to repay this favor. And you will agree, _now_, >to 3 Geas/6. Yes, I do value my life more than yours. Do you accept?) If the person can spend his or her own Essence consciously, then this definitely works; see the IPG, Lilim section. O:> The rest of it... is kind of a roleplaying issue. If the target has agreed to pay the Lilim back, then the target is less likely (come the time) to try to resist the Lilim's Geas! I.e., the target may forgo the resistance roll. If the Lilim doesn't get this sort of agreement, then a resistance roll is more likely to be in order. (Which someone might yet fail, of course. But.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:08:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Rude Cherubim At 4:44 PM -0500 11/22/02, BC Petery wrote: >> From: "William J. Keith" > >> First, no attack would be planned unless the Tether [...] >>had committed itself to rebellion against God. > >It wouldn't be a Tether if it wasn't committed to rebellion against God. That's not really how Tethers work -- they form for reasons that the GM decides (which might count as 'committed to rebellion against God' or might not, depending). A Tether could have formed from something dark, and just be sitting there with a Seneschal doing nothing but twiddling its thumbs. C.f. the Liber Castellorum, with the Plauge Pits Tether. I would look things up, but the toddler is yelling MOOOOMMMMMY at me. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:14:58 -0500 From: "Josh Moger" Subject: IN> Two New Attunements (was: Rude Cherubim) >I would look things up, but the toddler is yelling MOOOOMMMMMY at me. Forgive me, Beth. Flowers, Children, Protection Attunement: MOMMY! This attunement, which is handed out to and only capable of being used by the youngest Soldiers (in years of experience or years of age) or Relievers is quite a powerful one. You see, it summons an Archangel. Instantaneously and without fail. As you can see from the above, there are at least three Words which employ it, and several other Superiors have used it in the past. This works exactly as an invocation, though it only works once per day and the focus of the Superior so called is usually on the person who summoned her. This doesn't mean that she won't help out other allies of Heaven, but her first priority is to the caller. And don't let the Archangels catch you forcing a Reliever to yell MOMMY! ... Though there is something fundamentally humorous about seeing Novalis throw a 250 pound, 6ft. 10 servitor of War over her lap and start spanking him. ~~~~~~~~~~~ The War, The Game, Technology attunement: HE DID IT! Yeah, it's pretty much like the above, only this is given to select servitors that have proven their trustworthiness in the past. It only works once a week though, and usually tends to result in a far far messier invocation. After all, this isn't about protecting or helping. This is about blaming. And yes, Kobal has already seen Balseraphs who get their victims to scream HE DID IT! at Gamesters. Heck, they did that five minutes after this attunement was invented. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Two New Attunements (was: Rude Cherubim) LOL! Josh, either you have children or you've spent a good bit of time around them. =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age 18." -- Albert Einstein

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:45:42 -0500 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Resonance Abuse BC Petery wrote: > [dealing with zealous Malakite resonance use] > > You might just make up a list of thirty or so honorable > things and another list of dishonorable things, then repeat things off the > lists. Or use TJ Howell's list, conveniently packaged at: http://www.the8thvirtue.org:81/in-nomine/inwod/malakresorig.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:54:30 -0500 From: "William J. Keith" Subject: Re: IN> Rude Cherubim >It wouldn't be a Tether if it wasn't committed to rebellion against God. Well, some Tethers can bounce between Heaven and Hell until they're stabilized, and some Tethers can *fork* between Heaven and Hell! Needless to say, no Superior likes the latter, and it probably won't last long -- but it happens. What I meant by a Tether being committed to Hell's cause was that something at the Tether was actually occurring to damage the Symphony by harming humans or strengthening Fate; and, more importantly, the Tether was doing something to aid that effect. If it's just sitting there with the Seneschal lazing around -- well, then Hell is presumably wasting a resource, and angels of Stone have better things to do. If it's actively damaging the region in which it's situated, though, a response is called for, to stop it doing that. IMC. IMO. YMMV. E,atB,iamoapp,atmotslotittmpasi,tmfiwoin....Twotpctkotucir,eowhaim stteotcftrlcsaaptwtwpimamaohatpm.Tfcioasfn;iicwtdot....Mlsttotfwtiotsucofrl,w,at poeat,Icteqoa....Slaicbrais,titsflvoeolpot,aww;bitgcadaaspoo,wbmptwamrto.Tfoaatb tgspobtd:etqoawoafm,a,t,tedftrlwiaamjwf,otiatbotmodtrlstpc.Itlwtc,tqwhtpafrip,ht aoansot,d,p,ttcopcw,stioticbLaN,hbfutaotcoaccoe.Ehdftsa.* William *Inserted as a joke. If you really want to know I'll tell you via private email. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:46:57 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Home for old Roles - Part I: Scipio's. Ever wondered what happens when a Role/6 gets to old to be useful? I've had a few ideas - Here's the first: ========================================= *The* most exclusive club for retired military officers, Scipio's was founded after the Napoleonic Wars to allow senior officers to reminisce with their opposite numbers about "the good old days". The rules for new members are quite simple: the applicant must have won his nation's most prestigious medal, and must be sponsored by two members who were officers from the other side. (Although not a written rule, it is expected that the officers be from different units; ideally of different nationalities). The average age of members is well over 80; many spend their days snoozing in comfortable chairs. Despite this, the luxurious mansion which serves as a club house is a hive of activity. Members calmly work together to strengthen alliances between their nations, and defuse diplomatic incidents. Diplomats frequently call, asking for advice and assistance - any member of Scipio's can be counted onto have a wide web of contacts within their own nation, and so discussions of politics deal with practical details unknown, not only to the general public, but even to the so-called experts in each nations diplomatic corps. Further, many of the members are incredibly wealthy, and calmly make and break companies for the benefit of their nations. The vast majority of members are, of course, Kyriotates of The Sword; the more senior an officer, the less likely he is to die in battle, and the more likely he is to have a heart attack on the golf course. (Cherubim of Destiny routinely warn The Sword of when a senior officer is about to become 'available'). On 'retirement' the Domination joins Scipio's and uses his Role to defeat the efforts of Factions and The War to stir up wars between human nations. That old gentlemen snoozing in the corner? A Vessel for a Kyriotate currently discussing matters with a Blessed Soul in Heaven; when he wakes he will be able to tell what 'his old friend' used to say about the situation. Other Choirs & other Words are welcome, as are their abilities: there will always be a Mercurian of the War on hand, while members get advice from Trade on how to handle their investments. Eventually the Role must 'die', of course, but as human lifespans go up, people grow less suspicious about old soldiers - fewer still guess the truth behind the proverb "old soldiers never die". Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 23:12:19 +0000 From: "Jarrod Carmichael" Subject: Re: IN> Planting the Hook The scariest thing about hooks is that a lilim can shine your shoes 6 times. And then get you to work for her for a year. Ive always thought combining geas was a little daft. Mallakai JC _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2870 ********************************