in_nomine-digest Saturday, September 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 2790 In this digest: Re: IN> New to list and a question Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy IN> Corporeal Entropy IN> More In Nomine books and Songs I want! IN> {VIRUS?} Questionnaire Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy [ADMIN ]Re: IN> {VIRUS?} Questionnaire Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy Re: IN> New to list and a question Re: IN> Discord question Re: IN> Interesting question whose answer I don't remember IN> Sword of Judgment (RE: New to list and a questiont) Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. Re: IN> Just plain wrong, wrong, WRONG. (Crossposted to .innomine board) Re: IN> New to list and a question IN> Testing IN> Sorry for the problem :( Re: IN>Song of Fusion Re: IN>Song of Fusion Re: IN> Interesting question whose answer I don't remember ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:08:01 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> New to list and a question At 10:25 -0500 9/26/02, Joe Reimers wrote: >My question is, how do I keep the Lilim alive longer than 45 seconds? Or >are there any other suggestions for playing a "bad boy/girl rocker"? My >only longshot thought would be to show signs of the possibility of >Redemption, but man.... > >I should also mention my Malakite player plays his character to a T. > >Any thoughts? I wound up creating a demonic Lilim character for an other-wise angelic game, and had to work a bit so she'd fit in (barely). What I did was a) make her a Free (this makes life much simpler in many ways) b) set up her background so she'd been screwed over in a deal (or at least that's her opinion) by someone powerful c) sent her to Limbo (good for generating interesting Discords) and d) made her a "declared Renegade", which is a consequence of b) and c) -- Her Discord is basically an Obsession for getting even with the Word that screwed her over (the War), with the result that she runs around assassinating War servitors, or otherwise messing up the War, as much as she can. Needless to say, this easily qualifies her as a Renegade, without necessarily making her prime Redemption material. (She's also clearly headed for Big Trouble if she doesn't Redeem, since her course of action is decidedly suicidal, or worse.) Anyway, angels can get along with her, since she's mostly focused on damaging the War, which most angels have no problem approving of. But she's also cheerfully amoral, which annoys them no end. But she's a useful tool, and there's a Cherub of War who thinks she can be Redeemed some day -- after all, it's a choice that would let her do what she wants (kill Servitors of the War) and also let her stay alive (at least with better probability than she's got now). If you work at it, it's not too hard to construct similar schemes for other Lilim with different mindsets. No Judgment Servitor is ever going to *approve* of such a character, but if there's some political pull from another Archangel who's cultivating a potential Bright, they can at least be leashed somewhat. (Of course, this is easy with Michael as the sponsoring AA, since he's not very fond of Judgment....) There are two hard parts to this -- keeping the Lilim "grey" means walking a very fine line of constantly annoying the angels in the group, without pushing them too far; and there needs to be a fairly compelling reason to the angels for the Lilim to be tolerated, rather than killed. The worse the Lilim's history or behavior, the stronger this reason needs to be. It's probably not feasible long-term, for any character who insists on being *evil*. But Lilim aren't Shedim -- they can be thoroughly amoral without being proactively nasty about (at least to anyone who doesn't deserve it...). A nice, constant "What's in it for me?" attitude, along with the willingness to do most anything that pays well, works fairly well (as long as their deals haven't been with raving psychos). Lilim work well as thoughtless (at least for others) hedonists who aren't particularly evil, but would make good poster girls for the Word of Selfishness. (Yes, I know, when you get into heavy theology, selfishness and evil tend to wind up being more or less the same thing, and I won't necessarily disagree. But there's still a difference between a casual indifference to other people, and an active desire to harm them or tear them down.) So keep any really nasty stuff out of the Lilim's backstory, and the Malakim won't have so much to focus on. Judgment will still have a cow about angels associating with such a Bad Influence (TM), but that's Judgment for you.... It doesn't *have* to mean they do anything about it except keep filing complaints about the other angels. And of course, they *have* to keep a close eye on the situation, in case the angels *do* start getting corrupted. However, the AA of at least one of the other angels will probably have to be actively supporting the Lilim's presence, for reasons theological (i.e. get her to Redeem) or practical (she's a demon who can get into Hell and do things there). Of course, if the AA is Yves, the reason can simply be enigmatic; though Redemption would be clearly-desirable outcome, it may be that she'll have some important side-effect that will promote Destiny for other people, even maybe just by being an Obvious Bad Example (TM). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 18:27:35 -0500 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy I think that it has to do with the pure concept of the Song, myself. The Song of Corporeal Entropy has to do with decay, and the advancement and reversal thereof. It has nothing to do with turning a five-year-old into a 20-year-old. That is growth, and is seperate. The Ofanite of Creation Attunement could affect the growth cycle in my opinion. I remember seeing one of those "Awww, sad" TV news articles about some kid whose aging was much faster than normal. He was a ten-year-old kid, but was withered and decrepit. His growth was unaffected, perhaps even stunted. His growth progress was not sped up by his speedy physical decline. I think entropy starts almost at the beginning. Think how hyper an 8 year old is. You have a lot less energy at 18, and even less at 28. Possibly an adult reduced to age 5 through Corporeal Entropy would still by a physical adult, but would have boundless energy. - ----- Original Message ----- From: EDG > > How is growth not part of the natural aging process, at least for an > organism that naturally grows? What's the reasoning behind ruling that > Corporeal Entropy ages its target but *does not cause it to grow > naturally*? Excuse me for asking, but with that clause - and Moe, no > comments about the resale value of works of art - what's the point of the Song? > > -EDG > > - -- __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:36:22 -0400 From: BC Petery Subject: IN> Corporeal Entropy > How is growth not part of the natural aging process, at least for an > organism that naturally grows? The aging process is governed by the deterioration of "protein caps" on the ends of the DNA strands. In some people these "caps" deteriorate at an alarming rate, resulting in astonishing premature aging. A boy of seven will have the wrinkled skin, baldness and drooping nose and ears of a man of ninety. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:19:22 -0600 From: Brian Westcott Subject: IN> More In Nomine books and Songs I want! I just purchased two more In Nomine books today. They are The Infernal Player's Guide and Revelations #5: The Final Trumpet. Tomorrow, a role-playing game bookstore will be sending me a package containing the In Nomine Core Rules, the Gamemaster's Guide and Superiors 1 - War and Honor. Now all I have to figure out is which Songs to choose for my C.O.B.R.A. Commander character. So far, these are the Songs I am definitely interested in using: Dreams: Corporeal, Entropy: Ethereal, Form: all three categories, Light: all three categories, Motion: all three categories, Projection: all three categories, Shields: all three categories. Three other In Nomine books I am also interested in purchasing are Liber Servitorum (I may try to get it tomorrow), Liber Canticorum and Superiors 3 - Hope and Prophecy. That's the latest from me! Brian Westcott brian@brianrich.net Meridian, Idaho ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:12:27 -0400 From: dwood Subject: IN> {VIRUS?} Questionnaire - --LB0416Mo313ud7Fmp68y57S745 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="VirusWarning.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="VirusWarning.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed. Warning: Please read the "VirusWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more informat= ion. This is an automatic message from the InteliPort's Internet=20 Anti-Virus E-Mail Protection Service. - ------------------------------------------------------------ The original e-mail attachment "the entire message" was believed to be infected by a virus and has been replaced=20 by this warning message. Be advised that we do not keep copies of infected e-mail=20 attachments. Please ask the sender of the message to disinfect their original version and send you a clean copy. On Fri Sep 27 21:16:25 2002 the Anti-Virus E-Mail Protection Service=20 generated this report: - -------------------------------- Possible Microsoft security vulnerability attack - -------------------------------- - - Anti-Virus protection team : antivirus.com InteliPort Networks are protected by Sophos Anti-Virus software=20 and MailScanner. - --LB0416Mo313ud7Fmp68y57S745-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:36:10 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy At 5:05 PM -0400 9/27/02, EDG wrote: >At 04:16 PM 9/27/2002 -0400, you wrote: > >>It withers the cells (or youthens them), but does not cause cell division >>or cell undivision. > >But cell division is a natural part of aging beyond the growth process. :/ Yes -- and "natural" and "Song" go into the same sentence how? O:> >>To make people young again, or old and withered. ("Want your youth >>back? Sure. But you'll owe me.") ("Hahaha! Now you are old and crippled, >>and the grave is near! But sign on with me and...") > >See above. If your cells age past a certain point without new ones >replacing them, they'll just disintegrate. Technically, yes. But it's a Song -- it ages them and then lets them go. If it ages them _too_ much, then hey, the person will be pretty decrepit, no? >>Basically, it does it this way to avoid various things deemed crocks, >>such as growing seeds into trees to bust down doors. Or so I recall. > >I'd count that as a bona fide miracle, m'self. Yeah, well, house rules, y'know? O:> - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:53:26 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: [ADMIN ]Re: IN> {VIRUS?} Questionnaire Okay, someone who has legit addies in their inbox has a virus that's sending around randomly. Here's the headers: >Return-Path: >Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) > by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09921; > Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:23:43 -0500 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA20550 > for in_nomine-l-outgoing; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:28:59 -0500 >Received: from postman.inteliport.com (IDENT:root@postman.inteliport.com [208.27.31.24]) > by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20539 > for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:28:54 -0500 >Received: from Vrcxa (hip95.inteliport.net [208.7.213.95]) > by postman.inteliport.com (8.11.6/8.10.1) with SMTP id g8S1CLA32428 > for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:12:27 -0400 So, that means it's coming from "Vrcxa (hip95.inteliport.net [208.7.213.95])" And the IP number 208.7.213.95 is, indeed, inteliport.com. Okay, whoever's coming through there, YOU'VE GOT A VIRUS! GET RID OF IT! - --Beth, List Admin http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/listrules.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:47:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Corporeal Entropy - --- Brian Rogers wrote: > I remember seeing one of those "Awww, sad" TV news > articles about some kid whose aging was much faster than > normal. He was a ten-year-old kid, but was withered and > decrepit. His growth was unaffected, perhaps even > stunted. His growth progress was not sped up by his > speedy physical decline. The condition is called progeria. It has no effect on growth, at least not in terms of size, but the cells do senesce at a greatly accelerated rate. Note that the rate of mental and emotional maturation is also unaffected. Hmmm... something like progeria could be an interesting Discord... =====

Michael Walton, #US2002023848

"Don't repent. Stop sinnin'." -- old cowboy saying

__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 00:03:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New to list and a question At 7:08 PM -0400 9/27/02, Walter Milliken wrote: >However, the AA of at least one of the other angels will probably have to >be actively supporting the Lilim's presence, for reasons theological (i.e. >get her to Redeem) or practical (she's a demon who can get into Hell and >do things there). If you've got a Jeanite in there, you might also have him playing a two-pronged game. 1: if she associates with angels and decides to become a redemption candidate, good. 2: If she associates with angels and some convincing "Renegade" evidence can be gotten, she can be blackmailed into being helpful. ("Help us, and we provide certain support and don't kill you. Don't help us, and, well, the Game might be interested in finding out how much you hang out with angels. What, you don't believe we know where the Gamesters are? Tsk. We have email.") (If she were still a Nybbasian, then that would be good for that one, since Nybbas and Vapula are cozy, and Jean likes screwing Vapula over. Objectively and dispassionately, of course. But if you can conjure up some sort of data she has/can get, it might still work.) (Or, if you have Fire in the lot, there's always Gabriel doing some crazy (?) prophecy that the Fire Servitor takes as a sign that the Lilim needs some protecting -- and if it's ineffable enough for the Seraphim to shrug, maaaaaybe...) All of which I now see is redundant, but maybe you'll have fun ideas anyway. O:> (The Creationer, in particular, may decide the Lilim's redeemable. A Cherub, did you say? Heh heh heh.) - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 00:04:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Discord question At 7:40 AM -0700 9/27/02, Cameron McCurry wrote: >I was wondering something about the Need Discord. Would a Lilim get a bonus >in seeing that Need in someone? If she's looking for one specifically (penalty to Perception), then it's possible. Or it might just be what comes up normally, if she gets the same CD as the Discord's level. Or something like that. It's a "feel" thing, more than a mechanics thing, I'd say. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 00:05:09 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Interesting question whose answer I don't remember At 11:15 AM -0400 9/27/02, EDG wrote: >Can a Demon Prince bind a demon to his Word without permission? (Not an >already-bound demon, naturally, but one without a Heart?) I would actually be inclined to say, "No." But obtaining that permission would probably be fairly trivial for a Prince. Celestial Song of Charm (vs Will), anyone? - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 00:07:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Sword of Judgment (RE: New to list and a questiont) At 5:00 PM +0200 9/27/02, Rens Houben wrote: >... say, that brings up a question. How about Dommie's Sword of >Judgement attunement? Is being a demon an automatic "crime no less than >murder" in terms of that clause? I would say no, it's not. Mind, demons who killed damned souls, or even other demons, might well be within the purview of the Sword of Judgment. This is someting I'd rather not pronounce canon on when I'm sick, at midnightish, mind. O:> - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 00:09:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Ideas II. At 2:52 PM -0700 9/27/02, Michael Walton wrote: >--- Rampaging Crypto-Man wrote: >> * The Eden Experiment, and something the characters can >> do to participate in it. > > Setting up the Garden is one thing (selecting the >location, helping to bring in the plants and animals, >etc.). Novalis, Angel of Flowers, did a lot of that, in canon. But they can help! (Muwhahahaha!) Or you can kick the canon. - --Beth, arcangel@io.com / archangel@sjgames.com In Nomine Line Editor http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 01:46:13 -0400 From: "Eric Bertish" Subject: Re: IN> Just plain wrong, wrong, WRONG. (Crossposted to .innomine board) > Janus is also in Stygia; he's been seen in the same room as Valefor, so there goes that theory. Oh, bollocks. Anyone who's read enough Flash comics knows that Barry Allen has appeared in the same room as the Flash many times. He jsut changes clothes at super speed and lets the lingering afterimages give the impression of two people. If anyone can pull that off, it's Jannie. - -- Casca Moe is now playing an Ofanite of the Wind in my game. Strangely, I'm not afraid, though the rest of my players are.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 01:16:39 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> New to list and a question From: "Joe Reimers" > > Fair enough, and easy to work into the story. The rest of the > group consists of the aforementioned Ofanite of Jean, a Seraph of Judgement > and (most troublesome) a Malakite of Judgement. > > My question is, how do I keep the Lilim alive longer than 45 seconds? Find a reason why the seraph of judgement would order the malakite not to kill the lilim, and that makes it no longer his choice. It worked for a game where my malakite had to not kill an impudite, at least... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:13:37 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: IN> Testing Hey everyone! I just finally managed to change my email (I'm using softhome now) and I just wanted to be sure I have all tghe addresses right and everything... hope I do. Well, if this doesn't appear on the list, I'll know :D --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:21:31 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: IN> Sorry for the problem :( Okay, it works... that's good. No more nasty bounced emails :D but... if anyone replied to my Eli or Pricipaltites of Hell posts with any critiques and whatnot, if I can ask, could you send them to me again? I missed all mail from the time posted them due to setting this up and hotmail messing up and such, and I don't want to miss anything. Thanks! Stupid Vapula and his infernal creations... *grumble* --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 16:46:22 -0500 From: "Gregg Forge" Subject: Re: IN>Song of Fusion >>>And thank you for the image of Novy in boxers. My sides have officially >>>split in twain. :D >> >>That's a scurrilous rumor. Everybody knows that Novalis wears bloomers. >>:D >> > >*takes 4 Body hits from the Well Timed Pun attack* > >*groan* I suppose next you'll be telling me that Dominic wears suspenders? >-_- Of course not; he's a Seraph, and he knows the Trisagonist song, so he belts it out with the best of 'em. Kamika-Z ...no one is safe! The machine lives anew! HAHAHAHAAAA! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 15:57:29 -0600 From: sirea@softhome.net Subject: Re: IN>Song of Fusion > Of course not; he's a Seraph, and he knows the Trisagonist song, so he > belts it out with the best of 'em. I sign back up to the list... to have -this- greet me?! Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? --- Sirea, Free Cherub, Angel who Wanders, petitioner for the Word of Eternity ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 22:47:33 -0400 From: Michael Bruner Subject: Re: IN> Interesting question whose answer I don't remember At 12:05 AM 9/28/2002 -0400, you wrote: >At 11:15 AM -0400 9/27/02, EDG wrote: > > >Can a Demon Prince bind a demon to his Word without permission? (Not an > >already-bound demon, naturally, but one without a Heart?) > >I would actually be inclined to say, "No." But obtaining that >permission would probably be fairly trivial for a Prince. Celestial >Song of Charm (vs Will), anyone? Of course, given how EXTREMELY disloyal such a demon would be when they woke up (or a brain-dead idiot if kept under said Song), I can't think why a demon prince would do such a thing. If they want something out of the demon in question, they could use the same means that could compel the demon to accept service and compel just what the Prince wants instead. And why waste time with a Heart when you could tag them with a Djinn or some appropriate artifact and get tracking that way? Most Demon Princes have sufficient carrots to offer that they'd never need to use such a blunt stick anyway (you wanna bet that a being that probably has some way to learn ALL your desires (through Lillim if nothing else) and supply virtually any of them can't put something good on the table? They are in the business of temptation after all...). ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2790 ********************************