in_nomine-digest Monday, December 31 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2499 In this digest: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma IN> Dogma thoughts Re: IN> Dogma thoughts Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction IN> Re: Huh Demons and their Roles [Was: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction] IN> IN Undead... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 20:43:28 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >From: "Bevan Thomas" >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:19:06 -0800 > >> >> What, you mean like naming an Archangel in In Nomine after a Roman god? >> > >Or after a Babylonian god. Especially since in Christian folklore, he (or >at >least a very similar deity) is described as a demon (are Oannes and Dagon >the same god, or am I getting my mythology mixed up?). > He means Janus. jo _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:16:48 -0500 From: "Charles Phipps" Subject: IN> Dogma thoughts This is actually where I think In Nomine breaks down because Impudites are STILL not allowed to kill people when I have to think violence and breaking necks is the thing that most Impudites that are created fall for. In this case I think Grigori isn't exactly proper because they are more celestial watchdogs as opposed to the curious people of humanity. Mercurians have taken over much of the role Bartebly did. For anyone who thinks the reason he fell in the story doesn't work as an Impudite need I remind you he didn't want to serve hell but ERADICATE THE WORLD? Either he was highly dissonant or he was working for Saminga at that point mindset wise. Loki I think is a very good example of a Purifier and I doubt he needs to be superior status, I think he was just trumping up his part in the whole bit. Look at his behavior in the fact he acts like a Death God and is a trickster (The Nun for instance). It's quite possible in the height of irony that he is the source of inspiration behind the Norse deity since he came about well before Valhalla and so forth. "Okay we're in Wisconsin, where do we....LOKI!" "What? Thors hammer is dang kewl. Watch this...yo Raping Viking!" *fling!* *Lonboat explodes* "You really are a simple creature arn't you?" What I want to know was whether or not Loki was allowed back into Heaven or was completely annhilated? My guess was the clause was one of those bits of rules-lawyering by Heaven that at least he got in since he said 'both' or whatnot would destroy the world....or whatever. I also wonder the same thing for Bartebly who did apologize. Serendipity strikes me as a pretty good example of a Cherubim of Dreams if you want to look at it...attaching herself to artists and fostering the great movies of one's time until those Dang Lilim of the Media drive her over the edge. Personally speaking the idea of Litheroy as a certain British Actor makes the man alot more appealing....and the idea he might take over for the Messanger of God from Gabrielle (in Dogma Nomine canon). Almost as much as imagining him appearing as Harrison Ford. - -Charlemagne _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:25:14 -0600 From: "Charles Glasgow" Subject: Re: IN> Dogma thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Phipps" To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:16 PM Subject: IN> Dogma thoughts > This is actually where I think In Nomine breaks down because Impudites are > STILL not allowed to kill people when I have to think violence and breaking > necks is the thing that most Impudites that are created fall for. Actually, the vast minority of current Impudites are fallen Mercurians... most current demons are Hellborn. And for those who do fall for preferring violence against humans, there's always the Impudite of The War or Impudite of Death attunements. - -- Chuckg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:31:08 -0800 From: "Bevan Thomas" Subject: Re: IN> Finally Saw Dogma >He means Janus. I know. I was just giving another example of an In Nomine superior with the name of a pagan god. - -Bevan - ------- "We've always been under siege. The 'Real World' keeps shoving us into corners -- so we've built some worlds of our own. Now whoever's controlling this... wants to take those worlds away. Well, I call that interplanetary war." -T. Campbell, "Fans: the Fandom Menace" _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 16:14:16 -0600 From: toadpooka@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:57:38 +0000 "Janet Anderson" writes: > A Seraph would have to say, "I don't have a > driver's license, Officer." Which would cause him more trouble, as I believe > the police officer would not only give him a ticket but would require > him to leave the car parked somewhere and drive him home in a police car. Nope. The cop would arrest the angel on the spot and impound the car. Providing all the pertinent personal information at the station should be interesting; when asked his full name, address, etc, what would a Seraph say? Then, of course, there's the matter of contacting the owner of the car, as obtained from the car's plates. Hopefully (and most likely), it belongs to another angel that the Seraph knows. Now, if the character was a Seraph pf Janus, that's probably not going to be so... >From Whom It May Concern, Rich Ranallo "Rock and Roll will be the new planetary culture, believe it or not." - -Prof. Michio Kaku ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 10:33:27 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Huh > Maurice Lane wrote: > >> Hey, if Superiors have access to all of their >> Servitor/Choir Attunements... >> >> ...what angelic resonance can Kronos emulate? > > A couple people I spoke to guessed Elohite, but myself, I'd guess he has > all the angelic resonances. (Except that of the Bright Lilim, and > perhaps the Grigori and Menunim.) I've always run him as having all of them, except Bright Lilim - ditto with Yves. Them having the Menunite dissonance conditions works well, as it explains why they prefer not to intervene directly. The Seraph dissonance conditions explains why the other DP's rely on Kronos for information. Mind you, knowing that Kronos has 10 different sets of dissonance conditions has always fascinated me. The idea that his Fate involved conflicting dissonance conditions creating a dissonance trap makes do much sense... Consider a human who's Destiny is to defy Kronos to his face. If Kronos knows this, (and cannot avoid the situation, which is how he'd normally get around this) allowing it causes dissonance from his Word; stomping on the human will cause dissonance from his Menunim & Mercurian conditions. Which ever way he jumps, he has to run with a subjective decision, tripping him up on his Elohite dissonance...while his Malakite oaths will probably be violated if he allows the Destiny. And, of course, if Kronos is Fated to be destroyed in such a way, trying to avoid it will actually trigger it - one of the reasons I thought Kobal could enjoy getting a memory pearl from Yves (containing Kronos' Fate) and slipping it into that cup of tea. Yves is in a similar situation, but not as bad, as the angelic resonances are less likely to conflict with an angelic Word. Still, it's notable that both Superiors are usually consuming items which normally indicate Discord... Cheers, James. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:35:53 -0500 From: "Rolland Therrien" Subject: Demons and their Roles [Was: Re: IN> Role Maintenance and Destruction] And now, for the second chapter in my "How Celestials see Roles" post. This time, we look at Hell's side of the subject. Demons have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Roles. This is a strong point, especially when one remembers The War got started because the Demons believed they deserved The Earth more then Humanity, and that Demons resent and hate Humanity because of this. So it's a bit of a personal slap in the face for a Demon to pretend to be a lowly Human while on Earth. And yet, Demons who gain Roles often find themselves enjoying the freedoms and comforts that those Roles and their place in Human society offers. For a being who's lived in Hell all his life, the relative purgatory of Earth can seem like Paradise. Quite many a Demon finds the freedom of a Human life to be a respite from the stressful duties of serving a Prince. Since this "temptation of freedom" is often a source of Demonic defection, it is not surprising that Hell has an entire organization focused on keeping tabs on Earth. The Prince of the Game's servants work hard day in and day out, keeping tabs on Demons active on Earth, and making sure they report regularly to their Demon Princes. It's no small wonder Gamesters all get Roles on Earth, since they need to be on Earth to do their jobs correctly. The Gamesters hone their Demon Tracking skills by keeping tabs on one-another, which has the added benefits of insuring the Game stays unified and under tight control. It doesn't hurt that the fastest way to earn a promotion in the Game's service is to turn in a treacherous comrade... Balseraphs are known for really "getting into" their Roles, which is not suprising, considering their innate gift for "subjective reality". They take to their Roles much like a method actor would: They convince themselves they ARE the Role, thus they must act exactly as how the Role dictates they must act. This makes a competant Balseraph nearly impossible to find out when properly "immersed" in it's Role, but it also comes with the added risk of Balseraphs "going native" whenever it forgets it's a Demon and becomes convinced it's a Human. Djinn will originally grumble and gripe about having to take care of their Roles, once awarded them. Some will neglect their Roles, only taking the strict minimum amount of effort to maintain the legalities (and relationships) while others will take meticulous care of maintaining them, obsessing over every relationship and technical detail. Calabim see Roles as tools for "Home Renovation", using them to damage things using their mortal connections, much like they would with other means. They tend do stay with low level Roles, as EVERYTHING tends to break down around them. They're frequently forced to renew personal documents like Credit Cards and Drivers' licences due to wear and tear, and Calabim tend to damage Human-based Relationships through carelessness and personal abuse. Habballah see Roles as a gift from above, a chance for them to serve God by going to Earth to do their jobs as God intended them to. Much as the Elohim see Roles as an opportunity to study Human emotion in the field, Habballah see Roles as a chance to observe and Test Human resiliance out under Real Life conditions. The relationships they have in High Level Roles tend to be stressed ones, with a lot of emotional tension (mostly caused by the Punisher). Lillim see Roles in a different way then Demons do. Born from a Human Princess, Lillim feel closer to Humanity then other Demons, and as such find themselves fitting more carefully into elaborate Roles. They find Human relationships easier to understand, since most friendships basically involve trading small favors from time to time. Free Lillims, in perticular, enjoy the freedom of their Roles enough to make them flight risks in the eyes of The Game, who's agents keep a tight watch on them. Shedim don't have Roles... They prefer messing around with other Human lives over making their own. Impudites LIVE for Roles. They relish the opportunity to travel to Earth and build lives for themselves amongst the Humans they love so much. Much like their angelic cousins, they love mingling with people... Only in their case, it's out of a need for Essence and Attention, rather then honest friendship. - -Exit the LoneWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 22:45:43 EST From: CsHoneyman@aol.com Subject: IN> IN Undead... Hi everyone... This is my first thing to the list, so be gentle with me :o) The Undead in IN seem a bit underpowered, especially the vamps. Does anyone have any good ideas? Or any ideas at all...? ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2499 ********************************