in_nomine-digest Friday, July 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 2449 In this digest: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2448 IN> Re: Blessed Advantage Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage Re: IN> Re: A world of Magic/Influencing Politics Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage Re: IN> Re: A world of Magic/Influencing Politics Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2444 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:09:05 -0800 From: "Christopher Hughes" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2448 Random justification: In the World of Darkness the "Bahiri" are those who follow the Path of Lilith. Thus, the name has a history of being associated with her. Actually, I just realized that that's not necessarily a good thing if SJ decides he wants it in the I N world . . . . OK, new plan. Forget everything I just typed :-) Chris et alia << Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim. >Given how anal some of the Seraphim council get [You know the ones >that wont use the word Demon, preferring Bent or Damaged Angel >instead], there will be a seperate term for Bright Lilim that doesn't >refer directly to their origin in hell. > >Most of Heaven won't use it of course except for being pedantic or in >those situations where maximum formality is appropriate. > >Unless I'm totally mistaken the Hebrew bahiyr means Bright or scoured >which seems to have an appropriate resonance. > >Thus Bahiyri or Bahiyrim perhaps? > >Adam I *like* it. Both connotations are appropriate. You could use it in the lower case to refer to any redeemed demon, and in the Upper case as a secondary or tertiary Choir name for the Bright Lilim. I like this a *lot*! Hmm... supposing we doublecheck this as authoritatively as the LE would require to be satisfied, and it comes out correctly. Would making it -- that is, singular, bahiyri, plural, bahiyrim -- canon require a particularly difficult process? William>>> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:41:17 +1100 From: "james walker" Subject: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage > james walker wrote: >> Blessed is *not* unreasonable - > > Actually it is -- Blessed is a very rare gift that only a very few > mortals possess. > > - -David Then this should have been stated in CPG, which it is not. More importantly, given that politicians are a very small % of the population, and that Blessed gives a huge advantage to that career, even if only 1 in 1000 people possess the Advantage, it will be the norm in a political career. If the number of people with Blessed is more like 1 in a million, the number of politicians who possess it will still be high, becoming a percentage among the upper ranks, simply because anyone with the Advantage will do so well. James. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:20:41 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage james walker wrote: > Then this should have been stated in CPG, which it is not. No, not in those words. The fact that it's obviously a very powerful and unusual advantage, and one that costs 10 points, should make it rather obvious, however, that Blessed mortals are far from common, and it's not just a handy thing to tack onto any mortal you want to describe as "strong-willed." > More importantly, given that politicians are a very small % of the > population, and that Blessed gives a huge advantage to that career, even if> only 1 in 1000 people possess the Advantage, I'd say that's a very gross overestimate. (My own estimate would be something like 1 in 100,000, tops, but that is of course unofficial.) > it will be the norm in a> political career. Not in any campaign bearing a significant resemblance to the real world. As always, what you choose to do in your campaign is your choice, however. > If the number of people with Blessed is more like 1 in a > million, the number of politicians who possess it will still be high, > becoming a percentage among the upper ranks, simply because anyone with the> Advantage will do so well. Let's see..... 1 in a million would mean something under 300 Blessed people in the U.S. In order for the number of Blessed politicians to be high, you'd have to assume that almost all Blessed people in the U.S., therefore, are politicians, and even then, Blessed couldn't be considered "normal" in a political career unless you're talking about Congress or some other select group of politicians. While the image of half of all Congresscritters being Blessed is certainly amusing, I doubt it would work out well unless you're playing Toon Nomine or something equally farcical. ;) Sorry, neither your numbers nor your reasoning compute. Again, you can make every other human Blessed in your campaign if you want to, but the CPG certainly does not in any way imply that kind of frequency or mundanity for the Blessed advantage. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:49:25 +0000 From: "R L" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage > > If the number of people with Blessed is more like 1 in a > > million, the number of politicians who possess it will still be high, > > becoming a percentage among the upper ranks, simply because anyone with >the> Advantage will do so well. I don't really see why being a politician is "doing it so well". The measure of success can be on a totaly different scale IMO. And we're not talking neither money nor power here. A schoolteacher could be blessed, bringing wisdom and knowledge into the lives of hundreds of kids during a lifetime. A nurse could be blessed, saving lives on a hospital. A cop could be blessed, solving cases, saving lives. A fireman can be blessed... Getting the picture? IMO using that angle is much more appealing and would lead to a lot of interesting roleplaying. Mind you, I'm not saying a politician CAN'T be blessed, I just don't see it as a default in any way. Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:06:09 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: A world of Magic/Influencing Politics - --- David Edelstein wrote: > james walker wrote: > > Blessed is *not* unreasonable - > > Actually it is -- Blessed is a very rare gift that only a > very few > mortals possess. Besides which, resisting attempts at control requires a high Will, not Blessed. Which, as I recall, only grants a bonus against demonic powers -- not mundane ones, which are encountered far more frequently by mortal politicians. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:17:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Walton Subject: Re: IN> Re: Blessed Advantage - --- james walker wrote: > Then this should have been stated in CPG, which it is > not. For once I have books with me. CPG, p. 26: "Some mortals are blessed from birth with an indomitable personality - they are very difficult to affect with any power that interferes with their free will." It goes on to say the following: "On rare occasions, a mortal has gained this blessed status later in life." The combination of these suggests that the advantage is at least uncommon. > More importantly, given that politicians are a very small > % of the > population, and that Blessed gives a huge advantage to > that career, even if > only 1 in 1000 people possess the Advantage, it will be > the norm in a political career. I most definitely take issue with that statement. Though the CPG clearly states that Blessed humans aren't necessarily holy, the mere fact that holiness is the most reliable way to achieve blessedness (see the part about all Saints and bohdisattvas having this advantage) justifies the word blessed; considering the connotations, the term is used for a reason. I can see Blessed being more common among great _leaders_ (which is not at all the same as career politicians) than it is in the general population, but to say that such a state is the norm for politicians is reaching big time. ===== Michael Walton, #9805-068 "Love is an exploding cigar which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 19:05:19 -0800 From: "Brian Rogers" Subject: Re: IN> Re: A world of Magic/Influencing Politics Nope. Blessed allows a human to double his Will against resonances, attunements and songs that can be resisted as well as fast-talk and seduction attempts. They can be tricked or misled, but they are very strong-willed. Even though the rules don't specifically state it, I believe that a Blessed individual cannot be bribed easily as well. After all, what is bribery but monetary seduction. :) Brian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Walton" To: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: IN> Re: A world of Magic/Influencing Politics > > --- David Edelstein wrote: > > james walker wrote: > > > Blessed is *not* unreasonable - > > > > Actually it is -- Blessed is a very rare gift that only a > > very few > > mortals possess. > > Besides which, resisting attempts at control requires a > high Will, not Blessed. Which, as I recall, only grants a > bonus against demonic powers -- not mundane ones, which are > encountered far more frequently by mortal politicians. > > ===== > Michael Walton, #9805-068 > "Love is an exploding cigar > which we willingy smoke." -- Linda Barry > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:17:27 +0000 From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #2444 >From: "Christopher Hughes" > > >I apologize for my signature in the last message. Evidently, my command >didn't take on that e-mail. It has taken now and that signature will not >be seen again. Dude, I'm not bothered by the language, but if you ever _do_ use it again, it should read "Fighting for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity." ie. If you're going to do it, get it right ;) jo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #2449 ********************************